Daf 113 — Chullin 113 Summary

Chullin 113 – Good Morning Raboisai Salting Fish Together with Chicken The Gemara discusses fish and chicken that are salted together. The fish become forbidden: • Because they can absorb the blood coming out of the chicken But the chicken: • Does not become forbidden from the fish. Why? Fish have a thin membrane and therefore: • Expel their blood very quickly Chicken takes longer: • To begin and finish expelling its blood Once the fish have finished expelling: • They can begin absorbing the blood subsequently released by the chicken. Why Can Pieces of Meat Be Salted Together? Normally, several pieces of meat may be salted together even though: • One piece may finish expelling its blood before another Explanation Even after a piece finishes expelling its blood: • It continues expelling its other juices for a longer period As long as it is still expelling: • It does not absorb the blood being released by the other pieces Fish are different because: • They finish their expelling process much more quickly • They can therefore absorb the chicken's blood. Kosher Meat Salted with Treif Meat Rav Mari bar Rochel had: • Kosher shechted meat • Treif meat Together in the same vessel. He asked: • Rava The Concern Even if the kosher meat will not absorb blood while it is itself expelling: • Perhaps it will absorb the juices released from the treif meat Rava rules: • This is indeed a problem. The Juices of Forbidden Food Rava derives that the juices of forbidden food are themselves forbidden. The Gemara brings the extra wording: • הטמאים Regarding sheratzim. This includes: • Their juices • Their gravy • Small dissolved pieces Therefore It is not only the actual forbidden meat that is a problem: • Its extracted juices can also prohibit other food. מליח הרי הוא כרותח Salting Is Like Cooking This discussion involves the principle: • מליח הרי הוא כרותח • Something properly salted is treated like something hot Therefore: • Salting can cause flavor and juices to transfer from one food to another Just as: • Heat can cause absorption. Kosher and Non - Kosher Fish A Beraisa discusses: • A kosher fish • A non - kosher fish • Salted together It initially appears to say: • The kosher fish remains permitted This seems difficult: • If the non - kosher fish releases forbidden juices, why doesn't the kosher fish absorb them? Which Fish Was Salted? The Gemara explains that the case may be: • The kosher fish was salted • The non - kosher fish was not salted Therefore: • The non - kosher fish is not releasing its forbidden juices through salting And: • The kosher fish remains permitted. The Gemara analyzes the different clauses of the Beraisa to determine: • Whether one or both fish were salted • And which fish was the salted one. Opposite Case If: • The non - kosher fish is salted • The kosher fish is not Then: • The kosher fish becomes forbidden Because: • The salted non - kosher fish releases its forbidden juices. מליחה – Salting Meat Shmuel – How Is Blood Removed from Meat? Shmuel teaches: • אין הבשר יוצא מידי דמו אלא א"כ מולחו יפה יפה ומדיחו יפה יפה Meat is not cleared of its blood unless: • It is salted very thoroughly • And afterwards rinsed very thoroughly. Why Rinse Afterwards? The salt has drawn out: • Blood from the meat The salt itself now contains: • That blood Therefore: • It must be thoroughly washed away. Rinse – Salt – Rinse Rav Huna says: • Salt • Then rinse But a Beraisa teaches: • Rinse • Salt • Rinse No Machlokes The Gemara explains: • There is no disagreement One case is where: • The butcher already rinsed the meat beforehand The other is where: • It had not yet been rinsed Therefore, the complete process is: • Initial rinsing • Thorough salting • Thorough rinsing afterwards. Coarse Salt Rav Dimi of Nehardea would use: • Coarse salt After the salting: • He would shake the salt off Because the grains were: • Large enough to be removed in this way. Which Organs Are Considered to Contain Blood? Rav Mesharsheya teaches: • אין מחזיקין דם בבני מעיים • We do not presume blood to be present in certain intestines. The Gemara identifies these as including: • The intestines • The rectum • The fat surrounding them Therefore: • They do not require the same salting for blood. Other organs, however: • Such as the lungs Do contain blood and: • Require salting. A Perforated Vessel Shmuel says: Meat must be salted in: • A perforated vessel Why? The blood drawn out by the salt needs: • Somewhere to drain If the vessel has no holes: • The blood remains underneath the meat • And can be reabsorbed. Rav Sheshes – One Piece at a Time? Rav Sheshes would salt: • One piece of meat at a time The apparent concern: • Blood leaving one piece could enter another. Gemara's Question Why should two pieces be different from: • Two sides of one large piece? Blood leaving one side could similarly: • Reach the other side. Conclusion The Gemara says: • לא שנא – there is no difference Multiple pieces: • May be salted together The meat is occupied with: • Expelling its own blood and juices And therefore: • Does not absorb the blood released by the other pieces. Breaking the Animal’s Neck After Shechita Extra Blood Remaining in the Meat The Gemara discusses someone who: • Shechts an animal • Immediately breaks its neck This prevents: • The blood from draining normally from the animal As a result: • More blood remains inside • Increasing the weight of the meat. Stealing from the Buyers The Gemara says this can constitute: • גונב את הבריות – deceiving/stealing from people Why? The buyer pays: • By weight But some of that additional weight is: • Blood that would normally have drained from the animal. Therefore: • The buyer is paying extra because of the retained blood. May the Owner Himself Eat It? The Gemara asks: Perhaps the only problem is: • Deceiving the buyers But if the owner himself wants to eat it: • Maybe it is permitted Or perhaps: • The extra blood retained in the meat also creates an issur Because this may no longer be treated simply as: • Blood naturally absorbed within the limbs. Conclusion The Gemara leaves the question unresolved: • Teiku. בשר בחלב Chicken and Milk The Mishnah says: If someone places: • Chicken • Together with cheese on the table He does not violate: • A Torah prohibition. The Gemara asks: Does this imply that: • Eating chicken with milk would be prohibited by the Torah? Answer No. The Mishnah means: • Even if this eventually leads to eating them together • There is still no Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. What Is Included in the Torah Prohibition? The Mishnah teaches: Kosher animal meat cooked with: • Milk from a kosher animal Is forbidden: • To cook • And to benefit from Meat from a non - kosher animal with kosher milk, or kosher meat with non - kosher milk: • Is not included in the Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. Rebbe Akiva – Three Times “Gedi” The Torah says three times: • לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו Rebbe Akiva uses these exclusions for: • Chayah – a wild kosher animal • Oif – birds • Beheima temeiah – a non - kosher animal These are excluded from: • The Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. Why Doesn't “Gedi” Mean Only a Goat? The Gemara asks: Perhaps גדי always means: • Specifically a young goat If so: • How do we know the prohibition includes other kosher animals? The Torah elsewhere specifies: • גדי עזים – a goat from the goats This indicates that when the Torah simply says: • גדי It can include: • Other young kosher animals as well. Two Pesukim Teaching the Same Thing The Gemara notes that there are: • Two places where the Torah specifically says גדי עזים This leads to the classic principle: • שני כתובים הבאים כאחד אין מלמדין When two pesukim teach the same special point: • We generally do not extend that teaching elsewhere. According to the opinion that: • Two such pesukim can teach elsewhere The Gemara derives the limitation from: • The extra wording in the pesukim. Shmuel – What Else Is Included or Excluded? Shmuel derives additional laws from the repeated words: • גדי • בחלב אמו The Gemara discusses: • Cheilev – forbidden animal fat • Neveilah • A fetus found inside a slaughtered animal • Blood • The placenta • A non - kosher animal Key Distinctions Cheilev and neveilah: • Can still be included in Basar b’chalav Even though they already carry: • Their own prohibition This involves the principle of: • One prohibition taking effect in addition to another. Blood: • Is not considered meat – גדי The placenta: • Is merely a secretion/tissue and not meat Therefore: • Neither requires a special pasuk to exclude it from Basar b’chalav. “In Its Mother’s Milk” The words בחלב אמו also exclude certain types of milk. The Gemara discusses: • Milk from a male • Milk that comes from an animal after shechita • Milk of a non - kosher animal These are not included in: • The regular Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. Key Chazarah • Fish salted with chicken can become forbidden because fish finish expelling first and can then absorb the chicken’s blood. • Ordinary pieces of meat may be salted together because even after expelling their blood, they continue expelling other juices and therefore do not absorb. • Kosher meat salted with treif meat can be prohibited by the forbidden juices released from the treif meat. • מליח הרי הוא כרותח – proper salting can cause transfer and absorption like heat. • Shmuel teaches that meat must be salted thoroughly and rinsed thoroughly; the complete process is rinse, salt and rinse. • Meat must be salted in a perforated vessel so the extracted blood can drain away. • The Gemara concludes that multiple pieces of meat can be salted together. • Breaking an animal's neck immediately after shechita retains extra blood and can deceive buyers; whether the owner himself may eat the meat is left as a Teiku. • Chicken and milk are not included in the Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. • Rebbe Akiva uses the three repetitions of גדי to exclude chayah, birds and non - k osher animals from the Torah prohibition. • גדי without further qualification includes kosher animals generally, not only goats. • Shmuel discusses which forms of meat and milk are included or excluded from Basar b’chalav, including cheilev, neveilah, blood, placenta and different types of milk. 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