Daf 109 — Chullin 109 Summary

Chullin 109 – Good Morning Raboisai Efshar L’Sochto – Does the Piece Remain Asur? The Gemara continues the sugya of efshar l’sochto. A drop of milk falls onto: • One piece of meat If the milk gives flavor to that piece: • The piece becomes asur The question is what happens if the absorbed milk later comes out of the meat. Efshar l’sochto asur: • Even if the milk comes out, the original piece remains asur • It has become a chatichah of neveilah Efshar l’sochto mutar: • Once the milk comes out, the original piece can become mutar again. Rebbe Yehudah & Chachamim A drop of milk falls onto one piece of meat and gives flavor to it. Rebbe Yehudah: • The piece becomes asur • It can then prohibit the other pieces because min b’mino is not batel Chachamim: • The pot is not prohibited unless there is enough forbidden taste to give flavor throughout the gravy, pieces and contents of the pot. Rebbe – It Depends Whether He Stirred Rebbe says: • In one situation the halacha follows Rebbe Yehudah • In another it follows the Chachamim The Gemara explains: If he did not stir at the beginning: • The milk has time to enter the first piece • That piece becomes asur If he stirred properly from the beginning: • The milk immediately spreads throughout the pot • It does not first concentrate in one piece If he only stirs later: • The first piece has already absorbed the milk • Afterwards, the milk can be released and spread throughout the pot Proof Regarding Efshar L’Sochto If the first piece absorbed the milk and later released it when the pot was stirred: Why should that first piece remain asur? The milk has now: • Left the piece • Spread throughout the pot This indicates: • Efshar l’sochto asur Once the piece became forbidden: • It remains forbidden even after the milk comes out. What If He Stirred the Whole Time? The Gemara clarifies Rebbe Yehudah’s position. If the pot was stirred: • Properly from beginning to end Then even Rebbe Yehudah would not necessarily prohibit it. Why? • The milk never had an opportunity to concentrate in and prohibit one particular piece The concern is that: • He may not have stirred properly • The milk may initially have remained on one piece long enough to prohibit it. Is the Machlokes Really About Min B’Mino? The Gemara considers another possibility. Perhaps everyone agrees: • The original piece remains asur And the machlokes is only what happens when that piece mixes with the other meat. Rebbe Yehudah: • Min b’mino is not batel • Therefore the forbidden piece prohibits the rest Chachamim: • Min b’mino can be batel The Gemara rejects this explanation of Rebbe’s statement. Rebbe specifically distinguishes between: • Stirring • Not stirring That distinction concerns whether the original piece itself becomes or remains forbidden. Conclusion The machlokes is indeed connected to: • Efshar l’sochto Whether a piece that became forbidden can return to being permitted after the forbidden substance comes out. כחל – Milk Inside the Udder The Mishnah – The Udder The Mishnah discusses the udder of a slaughtered animal, which contains milk. Before eating it: • One tears the udder • And removes its milk If he did not tear it: • The Mishnah says “eino over alav” The Gemara discusses whether this means: • It is actually permitted • Or it is forbidden, although one does not violate the regular Torah prohibition of Basar b’chalav. The Heart – Removing Its Blood The Mishnah uses almost identical wording regarding the heart. The heart: • Is torn open • Its blood is removed If this was not done before cooking: • It can be torn open afterwards • The blood is removed The Gemara distinguishes between: • The milk inside an udder • The blood inside a heart Even though the Mishnah uses similar wording: • Their halachos are not necessarily the same. Two Versions of Rav Rebbe Zeira quotes Rav regarding an udder that was not torn. One version: • It is permitted Another version: • It is forbidden The Gemara tries to determine Rav’s position from the wording of the Mishnah and a Beraisa. Can It Be Fixed After Cooking? Regarding the heart: If it was cooked without first being torn: • It can still be torn afterwards • The blood can be removed The Gemara asks: Why does the Beraisa specifically give this remedy for: • The heart But not for: • The udder? Two Possibilities Either: • The udder does not need this remedy because it remains permitted Or: • Once the udder was cooked, tearing it afterwards will no longer help The Gemara uses this discussion to clarify Rav’s opinion. Proof – The Milk of the Udder Is Permitted A Beraisa states regarding the udder: • Its milk is permitted The Gemara understands this as support for: • The lenient version of Rav Meaning: • The milk contained within the udder does not have the regular status of milk for Basar b’chalav. Milk Found Inside a Calf The Gemara contrasts this with milk found: • Inside the stomach of a calf after it nursed That milk is different. Why? Milk inside the udder: • Has not yet left the animal Milk inside the calf: • Already left the mother when the calf drank it Therefore: • The two are not treated the same. How Is the Udder Prepared? Rav Yehudah explains: One tears the udder: • Lengthwise and crosswise And: • Presses it against the wall This removes: • The milk contained inside. Roasting the Udder Rebbe Elazar told his attendant: • Tear the udder • And I will eat it The Gemara discusses the case of: • Roasting Roasting differs from cooking because: • The liquid that comes out drains away • Rather than remaining together and cooking with the meat. Yalta – A Permitted Equivalent Yalta’s Principle The daf concludes with the famous discussion involving Yalta, the wife of Rav Nachman. Yalta says: For things that the Torah prohibited: • There is something similar that the Torah permitted. She gives several examples. Examples Blood is forbidden. But: • Liver provides a similar taste. The blood of a Niddah is forbidden. But: • There is dam tohar following childbirth. Cheilev of a beheima is forbidden. But: • Cheilev of a chayah is permitted. Chazir is forbidden. But: • The brain of the shibuta fish provides a similar taste. Girusa, a forbidden bird, has a permitted equivalent in: • The tongue of a certain fish. Eishes ish is forbidden. But: • A divorced woman is permitted during her former husband's lifetime. Eishes ach – one's brother's wife – is normally forbidden. But: • Yibum permits her in the required situation. A non - Jewish woman is forbidden. But the Torah permits: • Yefas toar under its specific conditions. Yalta Wants the Taste of Basar B’Chalav Yalta tells Rav Nachman: • She wants the permitted equivalent of Basar b’chalav. Rav Nachman therefore instructs: • That udder should be prepared for her Connection to the Sugya The udder provides: • A permitted way of experiencing a taste resembling meat and milk This connects directly to the Gemara’s discussion that: • The milk contained within the udder has a different status from ordinary milk. Key Chazarah • Efshar l’sochto asks whether a piece that became forbidden can become permitted again after the forbidden substance comes out. • Rebbe Yehudah says a piece that absorbed milk becomes asur and can prohibit the other meat because min b’mino is not batel. • If the pot is stirred immediately, the milk spreads before concentrating in one piece; if stirred only later, the first piece may already have become asur. • The Gemara concludes that the machlokes is connected to efshar l’sochto, not merely min b’mino. • The Mishnah requires tearing the udder and removing its milk, and similarly tearing the heart to remove its blood. • The Gemara discusses two versions of Rav regarding an udder that was cooked without being torn. • A Beraisa supports the lenient view that the milk inside the udder is permitted. • Milk found inside a calf after nursing is different because it already left the mother. • Rav Yehudah says the udder is torn lengthwise and crosswise and pressed against the wall. • Yalta teaches that the Torah provides permitted equivalents to forbidden tastes, and asks Rav Nachman for the permitted equivalent of Basar b’chalav — the udder. 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