Daf 111 — Chullin 111 Summary

Chullin 111 – Good Morning Raboisai Can Liver Prohibit Other Meat? The Gemara continues the question regarding כבד – liver. The liver itself: • Does not become forbidden from its own blood The question is: • What happens when blood leaves the liver and enters other meat cooking with it? A Mishnah states: • הכבד אוסרת ואינה נאסרת • The liver prohibits other food, but does not itself become prohibited. Why? While cooking, the liver is busy: • Expelling its blood Therefore: • It does not absorb the blood back into itself But the blood it releases: • Can be absorbed by other meat • And prohibit it. Maybe the Mishnah Means a Treif Liver? The Gemara rejects the proof. Perhaps when the Mishnah says: • The liver prohibits other food It is discussing: • A liver from a non - kosher animal In that case, the prohibition could come from: • The forbidden fats of the liver Rather than: • Its blood. Therefore, there is still no conclusive proof whether: • Blood that leaves an otherwise kosher liver can prohibit other meat. The Liver, Heart and Lungs Cooked Together Rav Safra met Rav Zerika, who related that he and another Amora had visited: • Yehudah, son of Rav Shimon ben Pazi They were served: • The trachea together with the liver, heart and lungs And: • They ate it. Why Was This Permitted? The Gemara gives two possible explanations. Either: • The trachea extended outside the pot • Allowing the blood to drain out Or: • The organs had first been seared • Preventing the blood from coming out during the cooking. Searing the Liver The Gemara gives examples of searing: Rav Huna: • Seared liver in vinegar Rav Nachman: • Seared it in hot water The purpose: • To prevent the blood from leaving the liver during the subsequent cooking. What Happens to the Vinegar? Rabbah considered saying that the vinegar used for searing: • Becomes forbidden Perhaps: • Some blood escaped into it. The Gemara responds: If the vinegar successfully seared the liver: • The blood did not come out If it did not successfully sear it and blood came out: • The liver itself could then also absorb Therefore, the status of the vinegar and liver are connected. Rav bar Shaba Refuses Cooked Liver Rav bar Shaba visited: • Rav Nachman They served him: • Liver cooked by itself in a pot Rav bar Shaba: • Refused to eat it. When Rav Nachman heard this, he strongly insisted: • The liver was permitted • They should make him eat it. Reason The issue with liver is primarily that: • Its blood can prohibit other food But when the liver is cooked alone: • It expels its blood • It does not normally absorb it back. When Can the Liver Absorb? Rebbe Elazar says: • Liver prohibits other food • But does not itself become prohibited Reason: • It expels rather than absorbs. Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak adds qualifications. If the liver is: • Heavily spiced Or: • Cooked for an extended time It can become more capable of absorbing. Therefore Under those circumstances: • It can prohibit other food • And can itself become prohibited. Blood Remaining in the Liver Rabbah bar Rav Huna visited: • Rabbah bar Rav Nachman They prepared special food in honour of Shabbos. He found: • A large blood vessel in the liver • Containing blood. He objected to cooking it this way. What Must Be Done? Cuts should be made in the liver and: • The cut side placed downwards This allows: • The blood to drain out. The Spleen Is Different The Gemara asks about the טחול – spleen. It also has: • A whitish - looking area But this is not treated like the blood vessel in the liver. Why? In the spleen: • It is merely fat Therefore: • It does not require the same treatment. Shmuel was even served: • A cooked spleen after bloodletting. Liver or Udder Above Meat Liver Above Meat The Gemara discusses roasting: • Liver together with meat If the liver is: • Above the meat One opinion permits it because: • The blood leaving the liver slips off the meat • Rather than being absorbed. Udder Above Meat The Gemara compares this with: • K’chal – the udder containing milk One view is more concerned about the udder because: • Milk is sticky • And can remain on the meat and be absorbed. Rav Dimi gives the opposite approach: He is more concerned about: • Liver blood, which involves a Torah prohibition Whereas milk from a slaughtered animal: • Is only a Rabbinic concern. Final Ruling – Liver & K’chal Mereimar gives the practical conclusion regarding both: • Liver • K’chal If they are: • Below the meat → permitted If they are: • Above the meat → one should not do this If It Was Already Done If they were placed above the meat: • The food is permitted בדיעבד . Rav Ashi & His Brother - in - Law Rav Ashi saw: • His brother - in - law • Roasting liver above meat. Rav Ashi objected: • The Chachamim only permitted this after the fact They did not say: • To arrange it this way לכתחילה . The Drippings Blood in the Drip Tray The Gemara discusses a tray placed beneath roasting meat: • To collect the juices and fat. Ordinary meat blood: • Settles at the bottom Therefore: • The permitted fat above it can be separated. But blood from liver: • Floats differently Therefore: • The collected liquid presents a greater problem. Blood Absorbed into Utensils A Shechita Knife Rav Nachman says in the name of Shmuel: A knife used for shechita: • Absorbs blood from the hot neck of the animal Therefore: • It cannot simply be used afterwards for hot food. Why? Just as the blood was absorbed through heat: • Heat can cause it to come back out And: • Enter the food being cut. A Bowl Used for Salting Meat The Gemara applies a similar concern to: • A bowl used for salting raw meat Salting draws: • Blood from the meat That blood can become: • Absorbed into the bowl. Rav Kahana therefore teaches: A bowl used to salt meat: • Should not be used for dairy food. מליח הרי הוא כרותח Is Salting Like Boiling? The Gemara discusses the principle: • מליח הרי הוא כרותח • Something heavily salted is considered like something hot And: • כבוש הרי הוא כמבושל • Food soaked or pickled is treated like cooked food. A statement is attributed to Rebbe Yochanan that disputes these principles. But the Gemara challenges this from: • Rebbe Ami, a talmid of Rebbe Yochanan. Rebbe Ami Breaks the Bowl Rebbe Ami had an earthenware bowl: • Used for salting meat He: • Broke it. Why Is This Significant? If salting were not considered like heat: • The bowl should not have absorbed forbidden blood. The fact that Rebbe Ami broke it indicates: • Salting can cause the blood to become absorbed into the vessel. This challenges the statement attributed to: • Rebbe Yochanan. A Radish Cut with a Meat Knife Can It Be Eaten with Kutach? Rav Kahana teaches: A radish was cut with: • A meat knife He says: • It may be eaten with kutach, a dairy food. Abaye initially distinguishes between this and the salting bowl: The radish absorbed: • Permitted meat The bowl absorbed: • Forbidden blood. Rava’s Objection Rava rejects Abaye’s explanation. Even though the meat itself is permitted: • It still cannot normally be eaten together with milk. So why should: • Meat flavor absorbed into the radish • Be different? Answer The difference is: The radish: • Can be tasted • To determine whether it actually has meat flavor. The blood absorbed into the bowl: • Cannot simply be tasted by a Jew. Having Someone Taste the Food The Gemara brings a Beraisa: If terumah was cooked in a pot and chullin was then cooked in it: • A Kohen can taste the food Since: • A Kohen is permitted to eat terumah. If he detects the taste: • The food is prohibited to a non - Kohen. With Basar b’chalav: • A Jew cannot taste the mixture to determine whether the meat flavor is present. The Gemara therefore says: • A non - Jewish expert cook can taste it • To determine whether the forbidden flavor is present. נותן טעם בר נותן טעם Fish Cooked in a Meat Bowl The daf begins a new important sugya: • נותן טעם בר נותן טעם – Nat bar Nat Case: • Meat gives flavor to a bowl • Hot fish is then placed in that meat bowl The fish has received: • Meat flavor from the bowl • Rather than directly from the meat. Machlokes Rav: • The fish may not be eaten with kutach – dairy Shmuel: • It may be eaten with kutach. Reason for Shmuel This is: • נותן טעם בר נותן טעם The meat first gave flavor: • To the bowl The bowl then gave that flavor: • To the fish. It is therefore: • A secondary transfer of meat flavor. The Gemara continues this sugya on the next Daf. Key Chazarah • Liver can prohibit other meat through the blood it releases, while the liver itself normally does not become prohibited because it is busy expelling blood. • The Gemara discusses cooking the liver, heart and lungs together and the possibility of draining or searing the blood first. • Rav Huna seared liver with vinegar; Rav Nachman used hot water. • Rav Nachman permitted liver cooked by itself, since it expels rather than reabsorbs its blood. • If liver is heavily spiced or overcooked, it can become capable of absorbing and can itself become prohibited. • A blood vessel in the liver must be cut and positioned downwards so its blood can drain; the similar - looking white part of the spleen is merely fat. • Liver or k’chal should not be roasted above meat לכתחילה ; if already done, the meat is permitted. • A shechita knife can absorb blood, and a bowl used for salting meat can similarly absorb blood. • The Gemara discusses מליח הרי הוא כרותח – salting is like boiling, and כבוש הרי הוא כמבושל – pickling is like cooking. • A radish cut with a meat knife can be tasted to determine whether it absorbed meat flavor; forbidden taste can also be checked by someone permitted to taste it. • The daf begins the sugya of נותן טעם בר נותן טעם : Rav prohibits fish cooked in a meat bowl from being eaten with dairy, while Shmuel permits it. 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